Twenty-fifth Sunday in Ordinary Time, Year C
Music for 9:00 AM Mass, St. Matthew Church, Dix Hills, N.Y.
Organ prelude: Ave maris stella
Opening: Love Divine, All Loves Excelling, vv. 1-3a (LOVE DIVINE)
Sign of the Cross: spoken
Sprinkling Rite: Asperges me (Tone VII)
Gloria: Mass VIII “De Angelis” [ gif | mp3 ]
Collect/Opening Prayer: spoken
First Reading: spoken
Verbum Domini dialogue: spoken, English
Psalm: Alstott
Second Reading: spoken
Verbum Domini dialogue: spoken, English
Gospel Acclamation: Alstott
Gospel Reading: spoken
Verbum Domini dialogue: spoken, English
Credo: III [ mp3 ]
General Intercessions: “Lord, hear our prayer”, spoken
Offertory: organ
Orate fratres dialogue: spoken, English
Preface dialogue: solemn tone, Latin
Preface: Latin
Sanctus: Mass VIII “De Angelis” [ gif | mp3 ]
Eucharistic Prayer: I, spoken Latin
Mysterium Fidei: chanted, Latin
Anamnesis: Mortem tuam, chanted Latin
Per ipsum: spoken, English
Amen: spoken
Lord’s Prayer invitation: chanted, Latin
Lord’s Prayer: chanted, Form A [ mp3 ]
“Deliver us, Lord”: chanted, Latin
Lord’s Prayer, embolism: chanted, Latin
Agnus Dei: Mass VIII “De Angelis” [ gif | mp3 ]
Communion: Adoro te devote, vv. 1-5 (ADORO TE DEVOTE) [ mp3 ]
Communion organ interlude: Panis angelicus
Concluding prayer: spoken, English
“Ite, missa est” dialogue: chanted, Latin
Marian Antiphon: Salve Regina (Tone V) [ mp3 ]
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11 Comments
Latin?? on Long Island?? at a Novus Ordo?? Are you sure this was not a dream?
Enjoy the Latin parts as much as you can.
As for the English, well - Those of us who are waiting for the new translations may have to wait for a long, long time - if it happens at all.
It looks like the proposed new Translation of the Ordo Missae 2002 is in for some very choppy waters.
I’ve just received OCP’s e-newsletter announcing the forthcoming National Meeting of the Federation of Diocesan Liturgical Commissions (FLDC) to be held in Orlando Florida next month. There’s a report that the biggest and most powerful of group of liturgists in all of the U.S. might present a Position Statement that is not very favorable to the draft translation of the Order of the Mass.
Here’s the link to their website:
http://www.fdlc.org/NationalMeetings/Orlando/2004_ORLANDO.htm
Here’s the link to their Preamble and Statement on the Ordo Missae:
http://www.fdlc.org/NationalMeetings/Orlando/2004_Proposed_PositionStatements.htm
“PREAMBLE
Whereas over 40 years ago, the Constitution on the Sacred Liturgy authorized translations from the Latin text into the mother tongue (CSL, no. 36);
Whereas from the use of the first edition of the Roman Missal to today, the responses of the congregation during Mass have become so well known and ingrained that they are voiced from the heart;
Whereas the first Draft English Translation of the Ordo Missae changes those congregational responses, from the start of the Mass through its conclusion;
Whereas these changes will render obsolete almost 40 years of established musical settings of the liturgical texts;
Whereas it benefits the Churchs liturgical prayer that there be a balance among the principles of fidelity to the Latin, the creation of a sacred vernacular and respect for the long-standing familiarity with the texts;
Whereas the prayers of the priest celebrant are not readily understandable when proclaimed and necessitate an undue reliance of the people on the privatized practice of reading the liturgical texts;
Whereas the prayers of the priest celebrant are grammatically and rhythmically difficult to proclaim;
Whereas even though Pope John Paul II often has expressed the need for further unity among Christian Churches and ecclesial Communities, many of the proposed texts in the Draft English Translation ignore the unity that already exists in the use of common liturgical texts (e.g., the Glory to God, the Nicene and Apostles Creeds and the Holy.)
“STATEMENT
1. It is the position of the delegates to the 2004 National Meeting of Diocesan Liturgical Commissions
2. that the Board of Directors of the FDLC
3. urge the Bishops Committee on the Liturgy
4. to promote a careful and deliberate process of translation of the Ordo Missae
5. so that the principles of full, active and conscious participation
6. are not compromised by a hasty translation
7. which jeopardizes the familiarity enjoyed by both the priest-celebrant and the people
8. in their prayers and responses.
We request that a time line and procedure for implementation of this resolution be set by the FDLC Board of Directors at the January 2005 Board Meeting.”
Ugh!
Thanks for these links, Maria.
I attended a terrific music conference at the Liturgical Institute at Mundelein this weekend, and they are having one on Liturgy and translation in a month I would love to attend as well. Fr Harbert will be the key note speaker, IIRC.
People in the loop (of whom I am not one,) seemed to be optimistic about the speed with which the new translation would be delivered until about a month ago and it is now starkly different.
I suppose we can thank groups like the FDLC fo that.
Amazing-
They seem to forget that the Latin responses ingrained in people were changed overnight.
Also, their draft itself contains a lot of “high” language e.g. “whereas” etc. Seems a bit inconsistent with the typical “progressive” insistence on “everyday” language in liturgical translations.
Peace, Geri.
You can actually thank English-speaking bishops. Britain and Australian bishops sent their drafts (the ones leaked by A(us)BC) back to Vox Clara and ICEL with substantial input for improvements. The FDLC statement seems clear and reasonable enough, doesn’t it? Just tells them to take their time and get it right.
“The FDLC statement seems clear and reasonable enough, doesn’t it? Just tells them to take their time and get it right.”
No, it doesn’t because no, it doesn’t.
It tells them, don’t change it because the people won’t like changes NOW. They liked them before, but now, right or wrong, the stuff they know is the stuff they know, so right or wrong we should keep it.
“You can actually thank English-speaking bishops.”
As I said, people LIKE the FDLC.
Peace, Geri.
Whatever. The story was in the news of the British and Australian bishops rejection of this draft months ago.
FDLC statements actually have no particular power. The organization is made up of diocesan liturgists and only makes recommendations to the BCL and the USCCB.
While your point about change is well-taken, I think people have far more of a familiarity with vernacular responses today than they did responses in a foreign language forty-some years ago. Besides, pretty much every bishop embraced the vernacular then and wasn’t getting hounded by questions about politicians, pedophiles or parish closings at almost every turn. The bishops know they cannot hope for a big change now. Might seem unfair, but that’s just the way it is.
It should be remembered that quite a number of “established” musical settings of the current responses are already obsolete, as they do not even conform to the approved form of the current responses. When that gets taken seriously, the position can be given the credibility it eventually deserves. Right now, there is a fair bit of hypocrisy that may serve only to discredit what would have been an otherwise fair point.
“While your point about change is well-taken, I think people have far more of a familiarity with vernacular responses today than they did responses in a foreign language forty-some years ago.”
Todd, the idea of a new American English translation is not to go back to a foreign language, but to improve the current American English text.
What’s wrong, for example, of putting back the words, “through my own grievous fault” in the Confiteor? (It’s retained in the Spanish text as “por me gran culpa.”)
Or the “of goodwill,” in the Gloria? Or the “with your spirit,” in the Dominus vobiscum dialogue? “Or the words “His holy and venerable hands” in the Eucharistic prayer just before the Consecration? Those expressions had been so entrenched in the English language that it seemed ridiculous to have left them out in translation in the first place. People know that they mean.
It would be interesting to see how many contemporary composers will be tripping over themselves writing new music for an improved Gloria that includes the “goodwill” phrase!
But knowing how powerful the Bishops’ own liturgy committees are (they are the implementing arm of the dioceses for every liturgical document that is released), we might not even see an improved translation.
“But knowing how powerful the Bishops’ own liturgy committees are (they are the implementing arm of the dioceses for every liturgical document that is released), we might not even see an improved translation.”
I’m curious, would a Cdl Mahoney, after dispensing his presbyterate from following Redemptionis Sacramentum, also dispense them from using the new missal if he didn’t care for it? or just never get around to implementing it?
Peace, Marie.
I think you’ll see an improved translation — we already have this in the Roman Missal, now held up for a few more years due to the delay over the Ordo Missae.
Personally, I see few problems with some (but not all) of the changes. Literal alignment of English with Latin is not the highest ideal in my thinking, and with these texts (and especially the responses) largely memorized (and maybe sadly overlooked in prayer because of it) today, I see two problems ahead:
- a likely increased stubbornness about opening up missals and missalettes for things we put on autopilot today.
- the possibility of just folding arms and keeping quiet. Uh oh– back to 1962.
I think better language in presider prayers is thirty years overdue. I’ve seen the Ordo Missae draft and it just doesn’t impress me. I doubt we’ll ever see “and with your spirit” at English language Masses. A better approach would be to add composed English-language prayers to the translations of the Latin — something that reflects the best the mdoern English language can offer. Lacking that, this whole deal is more of an exercise in politics than art.








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