The Recovering Choir Director

Peace, all.

Aside from the fact that Canon Law already enshrines an unofficial “Bill of Rights,” (somewhere around canons 210-270 I think) the writer’s assumption seems to lean toward a less mature approach to personal responsibility.

If liberal Catholicism were a cult, I would be sympathetic. But it isn’t. If traditional Catholic books had all been burned, I would be sympathetic. But they weren’t. If liberal priests and catechists slipped all the others a little pill or arranged a body-snatching, I would be sympathetic. But none of that happened.

The reality is that adult Catholics (and probably teens as well) have great freedom — as well as great responsibility — for their own growth in faith. The author describes herself as “robbed,” but the main theft was self-inflicted.

One example from her story: Her attitude toward the Hail Mary is curious and telling. She said she never learned the second half of it. Learned? Prayers are primarily for praying not learning. This is an example of an improved “Spirit of Vatican II.” Memorizing the prayer is an intellectual exercise. But it’s just the beginning. Then pray the prayer you’ve memorized. Pray it frequently; that’s what we have it for. Prayers aren’t fragile museum pieces for the memory’s shelf. They are tools to be used.

Another concern: where were her parents in all this? They seemed good enough to bring her to Mass. The parent, not the priest, not the catechist, has the primary responsibility for passing on the faith to the child. The notion that children can be dropped off to a parish school or RE class and the parents are thus off the hook is ludicrous. Her mother had the most sensible comment: explore what you are leaving before you leave it. A comment worthy of Dear Abby.

Before Vatican II, maybe people expected to be spoon-fed. I don’t know. I do recall from my own religious upbringing in the 70’s that the responsibility for living my Catholic faith was my own. Clergy weren’t going to do it for me. Teachers weren’t. It was up to me to take adult steps into faith, exploring the unknown, praying, and the whole deal.

If a person has a precious jewel and leaves it on a street corner for someone to take home, it is not robbery. It is foolishness.

Todd - Peace. Do you really mean that - it’s a nice opening for all of your posts.

You dismiss our stories so quickly. We (Long Islander, Leila, choir director, Thomas, me and many more like us) were young, impressionable and led astray. By the GRACE OF GOD, we are back. Leila in her post and well as I (and I’m fairly sure all others) do recognize our own responsibility for our loss of faith. HOWEVER, we do share our stories in the hope that children of this generation won’t be led astray by poor catechesis as we were. We stand as a warning to all parents not to trust the education of their children SOLELY to the Church - especially those run by dissenters.

Todd - I truly have yet to understand any of your posts in any of the sites.

Very well said Benny.

Well, Todd, you are a real self-made man. No Catholic culture or structure for you.

A fellow poster out there described how his kid was taught to cross herself saying “O Great White spirit.” He had to correct that right on the spot. Thank Goodness for his vigilance against Satan inspired liberalism.

Todd how dare you accuse the author of having a stale attitude regarding the Ave Maria?

Todd -

I knew you were going to respond with that but the bottom line is that attendance in the CCD is MANDATORY to make First Communion.

So your “do it yourself” mentality is not germane to the Catholic Church.

I don’t view the CCD teachers as far off Church officials. They are my neighbors who attend my Church. I do expect them to teach my child CORRECTLY.

The author is pointing out that she was not taught CORRECTLY. She did not get the content. When teachers , of any sort, just try to stand up there and convey emotion it just does not work. You can’t remember emotions, you can’t get TRAINED with emotions.

You’ll also get blown out of the water the first time you run into an Evangelical, most of whom, know the Bible cold! They also know their own spin on the Bible. And they also tend to know how to criticize your Church in an attempt to proseletyze you.

Catholics are being picked off left and right. The Masses are empty, half the missing are at home in a stupor in front of television the other half are at the Church accross the street.

The author of the article is describing how she was left defenseless and spiritually orphaned.

You seem like a knowledgeable guy…I think GEN X’ers are striving toward knowledge…and they have to start at about where a 1950s 5th Grader is at …That was the retarded nature of the 1970s Experiment.

Peace, Tom.

I don’t think we’re that far from agreement on things Catholic. I would agree that much child catechesis in schools and in RE is poor. But that’s no excuse for a child not knowing the Hail Mary or the Sign of the Cross. That is a parent’s responsibility — not a catechist’s, not the priest’s. The fact that “CCD” or whatever may be “mandatory” is irrelevant. If I thought my daughter was getting religious education short shrift, I would still set her straight. It would be my and my wife’s responsibility. I remain critical of this author’s parents.

My approach has less to do with “do-it-yourself” (whatever you mean by that) than with taking responsibility.

I understand and appreciate the author “felt” defenseless and orphaned. Not everyone who was catechized in the 1970’s is cut from this mold. Lots are, I grant you. But I still take exception to the catechism fix-it approach of catechists just teaching everything by the book and thinking it will work.

I suspect you are close to correct about people being at a child level of faith. My take on both pre-Vatican II and post-Vatican II Catholics is that most should be starting after 2nd grade. Certainly, we need more thoughtful Catholic adults than the Catholic minimalists of any and all generations running around today. And we need less victimhood all around.

Tom, I am not sure I would even agree that the US is a Protestant country — then at least it would be Christian.
It is a secular country, or as pagan as it is anything else.
It worships fame, wealth, convenience and entertainment.

Peace, Tom.

I have no wish to “blame the parents” in any general sense. I criticized one particular person’s parents for not teaching her the Hail Mary and the Sign of the Cross. The author’s ignorance of basic Catholic heritage rests primarily (though not exclusively) with parents.

I have seen too many parents neglect Sunday Mass, yet see that their children are dropped off for weekly babysitting at RE (or seven-hour day care in the parish school). The fault is not in any way with progressives or traditionalists, but with people who abdicate their responsibility as the primary guides for their children’s spiritual lives. May I ask if you disagree with parental responsibility?

At our parish, the parents of kids in the parochial school sign a pledge that they will take them to obligatory masses.
If they are not in the parish, or not Catholic, they make separate arrangements.
This year weekly “envelopes” were printed up for the entire school population that is actually nominally members of the parish, not to hold monetary donations, but to write on what “gift” you had given God (or one of His people) that week (helping mom without being asked, being in children’s choir, being nice to a new kid in school, etc.)
Well, parents, rightly, realized that this was also a way to check on attendance, and you should have heard the foul language any number of parents unleashed on our very sweet, mild-mannered, soft-spoken DRE, it was not of her g– d– business whether my kid goes to Mass, no m– f— teacher is going to tell me how I have to spend my weekends (note, they had all signed the pledge, previously.)
Father is going to take over the job of contacting people who are not living up to their end of their agreement, because the poor woman was just about done in by the confrontations.