A disappointed reader comments and challenges
I have read several of the articles posted on this site. I had hoped to find suggestions and practical advice on how to merge timeless Catholic musical traditions with music that appeals to the younger generations, particularly those under 40 that have never experienced pre-Vatican II churches.
I was gravely disappointed with your site. I have found only ruminations on why the Latin Masses, Gregorian chants and classical pipe organ pieces should remain the primary music of the Church. This mentality forces the Church to go the way of William Shakespeare; beautifully written, classic stories that the average person simply never reads, let alone appreciates, because the language is difficult and dated.
I ask you, does God really prefer we say prayers in Latin? Music that doesn’t use thirds? Does He think Amazing Grace played on the bagpipes at a funeral or music with a rock and roll beat but words like, I will lift my voice to worship you my King. I will find my strength in the shadow of your wings . inappropriate and offensive?
Before I respond, I should state that I’m responding in charity the best I can. Even in the most masterful of writers, the printed word is a poor conveyor of tone. And I’m no wordsmith.
I am sorry to disappoint you, and gravely. Any suggestions I may have made in the past derive from the official Church documents and liturgical tradition. The Vatican II documents do in fact specifically laud the use of Latin in the Latin liturgy, Gregorian chant as having pride of place at the Mass (usually understood to be the Ordinary), and pipe organ as a worthy instrument.
Does this mentality force the Church into a corner of high liturgical worship? Absolutely not. Much to the chagrin of some (and yes, my own aesthetic sensibility and pride), but to the joy of others, these same documents allow wide-ranging adaptations—adaptations that are carried out under the broad and nebulous banner of “pastoral sensitivity”. They do not rule anything out—vernacular translations of the Mass (even faulty ones), any style of music (as long as it’s in accord with the spirit of the liturgy)—anything. They assume nothing but good will.
Does God prefer we say prayers in Latin? The Church, in the Constitution on the Sacred Liturgy, suggests that the Latin rite incorporate Latin, but does not force us if we don’t want to heed the suggestion. She is only concerned that whatever we do will increase belief in the sacred Mysteries handed to her by her Founder and Bridegroom. She offers the riches of her heritage, warts and all, as tools we can choose to employ or not.
Is “Amazing Grace” on bagpipes or praise and worship music inappropriate and offensive to God? Only God can read musicians’ hearts and the intent that they offer along with their music. Humans have the little we have plus the faith given to us. God has seen the grumbling in my heart at Mass after Mass, repeating the words of Msgr. Hellriegel, “This is not what was meant at all.” But maybe it was. He has seen me give offense to my brothers by using this very log to make snide, ironic comments devoid of charity. I will pay for it. Perhaps I’m paying for it now. I leave those remarks here, though, as evidence of my evolution (or lack thereof).
God prefers a humble, contrite, heart over an arid sacrifice, regardless of rite, genre or style. The Church has seen fit to transform what could be called a “yoke” mandating the use of Latin and chant (pre-Vatican II) into an invitation suggesting the use of Latin and chant. In other words: She doesn’t tell us to do it out of a spirit of obligation, but out of charity (something I repeat I’ve lacked in much commentary). Some people (myself obviously included) would prefer to respond to that invitation in the affirmative, out of charity. Others see our desire as the first step on the “slippery slope” back into the “bad old days” and fear it. Let it be.
Dear commenter, if you come back and are reading this, here are my suggestions and advice on how to merge the music of the Catholic Latin Rite heritage with music that appeals to the under-40 crowd.
- Ask for permission from your pastor to incorporate some chant, etc., iterating that other music will not be discarded.
- If the pastor gives permission, then ask those people who you’re ministering to whether they want to learn. If you want, you can warn them with, “It’s beautiful, but you won’t understand the words” or any other suitable caveat.
- Expose them to the music through a recording. Gauge their reaction. Teach those people who want to sing this new music.
- Use maybe one piece at a “minor proper” (my term) such as the Offertory or Communion.
- If you’re more ambitious, give the people Sacrosanctum Concilium 54, saying, “This is what the Church asks. We don’t have to sing the Ordinary in Latin if we don’t want to. What do you think?” and act accordingly. If they want to, maybe Mass XVIII or Mass VIII, one part at a time might be a way to do it. Note that the rest of the music can be of other genres.
Who knows? If the people are eager and the efforts are successful, you may find that the timeless Catholic musical tradition will also become music that appeals to the under-40 crowd. Not because it’s intelligible or catchy, but because its beauty, austerity, grandeur or “sacredness” speaks to the soul.
Again, I am sorry to disappoint you. If this post is cause for more disappointment, I apologize again. I could not have done better at this point in time. If you find better advice, please share it here so others can reap the benefits.
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18 Comments
Actually, I know a lot of the ‘under-40′ crowd prefers chant and such. (me, for one…)
Count me in as an under-40 who prefers chant and such.
I think that the points mentioned above are quite helpful, and I have found the resources provided via links from this blog to be extremely helpful in talking to my fellow Catholic musicians and a few seminarians I know (albeit only the ones who were already interested in chant and such).
Just by the by, I’m so glad that I know seminarians who ask me questions about chant. It’s very comforting to know that, someday, there will be four priests out there who like the same music I do.
Aris,
I know you’re sorry to’ve disappointed this fellow, but you needn’t be so chary in your response. In short, your site is not uncharitable; it would uncharitable for your site not to be what you have striven to make it, an expression of the true desires of Holy Mother Church.
And so I say to the commenter:
To paraphrase St. Paul, when we were children, we thought and acted as children; now that we are men we must give up our childish ways. God wants more from us than aesthetic enjoyment and constant variety. He wants us give up our pride and give up our will to be formed by Him. The Church has been given the liturgy by the Holy Spirit for this purpose, and it should be with fear and trembling that we work out any alterations. Yes, I repeat: the liturgy is not truly the work of men, but the joint work of men and the Holy Spirit. God may not be more pleased by Latin than English when offered aright, but the heart that will not consider submitting to the will of the Church in something so minor as a small language barrier cannot be trusted in more difficult things. Christ said: is it more difficult to say “your sins are forgiven” or to say “rise and walk?” Unless we believe that the Church has the right to challenge us in our hour-weekly liturgical lives, will we be willing to listen to Christ and be chaste, or to love the beggar whom we pass in the street? I say that we will not.
Mark, thanks for the comments - they’ve gotten me thinking about some other Scriptural passages that might be applicable to the current state of the liturgy.
Again, my apologies are strictly for the excessively strident tone I may have taken in some posts. I do, however, stand by the content contained in them.
Aris,
I laud your apologetic tone and your desire to preserve the liturgy. But I, humbly I add, think that you’ve been neglecting something on your site that was hinted upon by the young commenter.
I think it’s all too easy to play cheerleader for Gregorian Chant, unite all the under-40s who agree with you, and pat yourself on the back for following the directives of Vatican II as close as possible. And while this is all very, very good, I feel that you do this while ignoring the very heart of the reasons why Lifeteen masses and praise and worship are becoming more and more the norm.
Frankly, you’ve got a huge cultural divide, and from what I’ve read on your site, you’re not really facing it head on. There’s the substantive fact that the praise and worship genre is flying off the shelves, that this expression of music has grown in popularity–that much of it is Biblical, that the focus of the songs are overwhelmingly an improvement over the Hallmark-card encourage-me sensibilities of Glory & Praise music, as they are overwhelmingly about worshipping God. All this, in a format that most folks can relate to and embrace as their own.
This is on your side. This is that unknown disciple that is performing miracles in Jesus’ name, and it appears that you feel obligated to hush him up, because he’s not with you, denomination or musical appreciation-wise.
I’m not writing this to defend praise and worship–if you are not inclined to use it, then don’t. I know it’s not perfect, and I can just as easily find reasons to fault it. I’m writing this because that is just one example of taking something of today’s culture, and using it for God’s rich purposes. In other words, it looks at the people first, it looks at the culture the people are in, and it asks how can I best convey the great news of Jesus Christ, undiluted and uncompromised, in a manner that they can understand?
What do I see your site do? No engagement. Lots of teaching, (which is good), lots of highlighting the problems of me-based, poor-musicianship, liturgically-improper specific examples (which are a-plenty). But not once have I read so much as a dialogue with the culture at hand, with the kid in the pew who thinks “Agnus Dei” is a Michael W Smith song.
To them, Gregorian chant is your thing, and they’re okay with that–so long as they never have to go to your site. They don’t see the reasons why the Vatican has said such, and they are assuming it’s because the Vatican, they believe, is out of touch. They scoff at the poor choir director who says chant is easier than contemporary praise choruses–they know for themselves that’s just not the case. They mock at the teacher that instructs how to pray in Latin–too much work–a lot easier at my friend’s Evangelical parish, and I get the personal relationship with Jesus there too!
Which is why you have to do better than what you have been doing. You have laid for yourself a fine task, an honorable one, but you’ve attracted a sizeable Internet choir to preach to. I’ve lurked here for over six months, so forgive me if I’m mistaken, but I have not really come across any attempts to connect with the culture.
Perhaps you can start by critiquing some books that are popular today amongst the Protestant worship leader scene– “Worship Evangelism” by Sally Morgenthaler, to me, is essential reading, for everybody, Catholics included. There, in writing, explains the lure of the contemporary praise choruses, the ease of singability, the relatability with the average person. Personally, it’s been a lot easier to teach “Lord I Lift Your Name on High”, which contains a lot of spiritual depth in its eleven lines, than “The God of Abraham Praise” a recognizeable, well-metered, but ultimately complicated hymn.
Nick
I beg to differ with Nick about the praise and worship music. I don’t recall you ever saying that praise and worship couldn’t possibly bring people to Christ, merely that it was not the preferred music for Mass. Which is true.
I have many friends who find praise and worship music very helpful, but most of them prefer more traditional music at Mass. They save the other music for private devotions. There is a program at my university called THIRST which has praise and worship music, led by students, every Thursday night. Students from several denominations come. I think this is the proper venue for this style of music.
Interesting that “Lifeteen” masses were mentioned by a detractor.
I just hung up from a phone call with my teen-age neice who told me how “embarrassed” she was for their youth minister who was trying to push the Lifeteen mass, and how she and all her friends thought the music was “a joke” and that these “old guys” (I gather they’re late 20s,) were trying to hard to “seem cool” and that asking them to stand around the altar was embarrassing to THEM (the kids,) and that she intended to look for masses without music if that was the alternative.
Who am I: Catholic music minister, composer, arranger, and copiest. I have sung and played in traditional (organ) choirs, folk choirs, prais bands, Catholic black Gospel choir, and for a Chinese prayer group. I have played in five different dioceses in the last year. I have been to mass in over half the US states, Canada, Mexico, most of the countries in Western Europe, several Asian countries plus some out of the way places like Tahiti. I have written a book “Encounters With An Awesome God” which includes an explaination of the Trinity. My diocese (Birmingham) has dicerned tha I have the gift of minor exorcism - I can dicern spirits which often gives a different viewpoint on the effectiveness of singing or the reasons why a song does not work. I sometimes work with digital music and have written my own sequencer (not a trivial programming task!)
I like to use chant for the verses of the Psalm. However, Gregorian chant has some serious shortcomings.
I have has heard beatiful Gregorian chant in such places as St. Stephen in Vienna and Kings College in Cambridge, England. Gregorian chant is free flowing; it has neither meter nor tempo. Before the middle ages, it also had some flexability with respect to notes, but this flexability was lost as notation evolved to become more precise.
There is a problem in that orignially the chant was designed to emphasis certain syllables in Latin. When translated, the important syllables do not line up with music highlights. Chanting the Psalm in Latin can set a mood, but the text message is lost except to those very few who understand Latin.
A soloist can sing in a free flowing manner. It is much hard for a choir; it takes a good conductor to keep them together. The big trouble start when a congregation tries to sing chant.
Americans are arded with songs with a beat. A lot of songs were developed for dancing and have rather strict rhythm and this effect touches most of the popular music.
When American congregations sing chant they do it with a beat - a sort of rap chant without loud drums. I do not find this very pretty. Often I hear the Our Father chanted this way and I do not wonder why many find chant not to their liking.
I see no easy way out of this dilemma, and thus only recommend Gregorian chant for soloists or well trained choirs.
Also to sound heavenly, Gregorian chant requires a church with a rather long acoustic decay - at least 2 seconds. A long acoustic decay causes two problems: 1 It is hard to understand the sermon. 2. Faster songs are blurred and nuances such as a hammered note on a guitar can not be heard. In a older cathedral with a long acoustic decay songs have to be sung slower and nuances are wasted or just left out. If you do not like some of the newer praise hymes, it might be you have only heard them in the wrong building.
That’s all I have time for now.
God bless,
Al
“nuances such as a hammered note on a guitar can not be heard”
And that’s a problem?
These comments are a continuation of my 24 July 2003 comments.
Is blurring of nuances due to long acoustic decay a problem? Yes, in two ways.
1. Nuances are what distinguish a good beginner from the master artist. Blur the master artists rendition and it sounds like the beginners. If all renditions sound like beginners efforts, congregations become bored.
2. A long acoutic decay causes lyrics to be hard to understand. Again the result is congregation boredom.
The end result of congregation boredom is nonparticipation - a serious problem in traditional Catholic Masses.
The main point here is that part of this nonparticipation is the result of acoustics, not music selection.
The plot thickens: Some musicologists advocate that Gregorian chant evolved into modern (last 600 years) Gregorian chant as the result of the long acoustic decay - 4 seconds - of the large medival cathedrals.
I do get around. When I wrote my last input I was in Delaware, now I am in California. Last month I went to mass in Massachusetts. I try to go to as many different types of masse as possible. I usually talk to the music ministers and members of the congregation about the music.
A general pattern hold true. In “organ masses” there is 20 to 30% participation - people who pick up the hymn book and/or open their mouth during singing. Masses with modern music have 90 to 95% participation. Don’t belive me, check it out yourself.
It will not surprise you, there is also an age differentiation. The sad part is churches that do not have at least one modern music mass are lacking in young people overall. I suspect they became bored and left. I hope to a nearby Catholic church, or at least to a Christian church, but some just dropped out of religion altogether.
Music ministry and Liturgy in general is not just about tasts, tradition, or tempo, it is about saving souls.
God bless,
Al
Al,
If you actually met young Catholics, you’d find out that they didn’t “get bored and leave,” but were simply not taught their faith, and so, like the seed that fell on shallow soil, were scorched and died. Considering the modern music at the college I attend, and the Mass attendence rate (around, oh, 20% — Aris?), I don’t think that it’s the music that’s driving them out — they simply aren’t Catholics.
Incidentally, people wouldn’t be so bored if they were catechised, like, ever.
THANK YOU, Mark! You have demonstrated that lack of engagement I’ve been hinting at all along!! Everybody else, ya see what I’m getting at?
Mark, it may very well be true that the kids may leave because of their lack of catechism. There are a thousands of reasons for this, and it’s simply NOT IMPORTANT to try to figure out how to correct this…–get ready–…if you are NOT in a position to do so. If you are a choir leader, and a priest says do Glory & Praise, you conform or find another job.
NOW. Hear me out.
It is very very easy to get into an attitude, “well they weren’t Catholics to begin with, so let’s leave them to their ruin.” Jesus wouldn’t leave them to their ruin, and neither should we.
We must be authentic witnesses to them–not merely pulling all the stops to provide for them the holiest music at mass you can possibly muster (and thus, as you say, DIE from too much exposure at once). But TRY to bridge the culture gap. Pick songs that they are familiar with (and that you’re comfortable with). Lead by example. Dare to experiment with more contemporary approaches with the traditional standards. Even learn songs today that are proven to get young adults excited for their faith. Pick songs that are strong lyrically and filled with lessons, but also actively a response to God (as opposed to songs that merely teach).
A good farmer restores his parched land with a lot of attention, a lot of care. And after a while, the kids will begin to grow to appreciate more of the traditional classics–not important, but more important know Jesus, and then His Bride, the Church. But it must take time, and it must be handled sensitively. When people see you make that effort, they will respond in kind, perhaps even learn more about their faith.
Nick
I did not mean to imply nuance was not important.
I meant to say “nuances” of guitar playing are not important.
Your experiences of participation do not reflect mine at all.
I observe that the more competent the guitar accompaniment and “pop” singing is, the more “performance” it seems, and the less the average person in the pew sings.
And when it is bad, there is eye-rolling from young and old alike.
In my observation, “squarer,” rhythmically steady, limited range hymns; and simple chant, (e.g. the Snow “Our Father”, the Benoit “Where Charity…” the missa primitiva,) week after week, mass after mass, parish after parish inspire the most resonse.
I also travel around the country, and go to a great many churches.
So I have checked it out for myself, and I DON’T belive you (or at least, I don’t back up you observations.)
Dear friends,
May I say something? I strongly disagree with Aristotle’s message.
First of all, while it is true that God more regards the heart than the outward expression, that doesn’t mean that “ritual” is bad. In other words, I do not believe that in public worship of God, we should use just any old language: the colloquial language that we use speaking in a low-class, colloquial way. Rather, I believe that Latin should be used at Mass MOST OF ALL because speaking to God is something SPECIAL, especially in public worship. In theory, you could have Mass on the beach, but that is not the best place to have Mass. In theory, people could wear dirty, casual clothes to church, but this is not the best thing.
Secondly, this does relate to young people. I am 22, and all the members of my choir are younger than I am. They cannot get enough of singing beautiful, high-class, wonderful, Latin hymns. They do not WANT rock music at Mass.
http://jeff.ostrowski.cc/ for evidence.
Best to you, in Our Savior,
JMO
Hello, everybody–
I’ve appreciated reading all your comments. Each and every message shows how deeply you love the Faith, and are thus so greatly affected by its expression in Church music.
Please have a listen to some of my recently recorded hymnody about which I am very pleased. (www.nicholasmaria.com.) Thank the Lord, for the creative act is a pure gift from God, as many of you know through experience.
My parish pastor just this morning (so I was told) taught “Jesus, the Lord of Life” to all the Masses himself. He feels deeply about the prolife issue, shown by the fact that he was one of the two priests in my diocese jailed for abortion clinic witness a few years ago.
Thank you, Aristotle (such a lovely name!), for your initiative in establishing this message venue. In imitation of you I thought I’d try my hand, likewise, in blogdom at nicholasmaria.blog.com (or thereabouts).
Mary
I am an Organist/Director of Music at a Catholic Church and I have followed the debate over Church music for many years and the posts on this web-site for about a year. I never post comments because I am still researching many things and above all seeking the heart of the Church through prayer, especially the Liturgy of the Hours, and seeing where that leads me musically. The comments are so varied, stimulating and thought-provoking. Thank you to all of you.
But one thing keeps coming into my mind in regards to keeping people coming to Mass (especially young people). If Christ becoming present on the altar during Mass, the King of Kings, the Creator of all Things, and His sacrifice for my salvation that we celebrate and ponder at every Mass, if these monumental and overwhelmingly awesome truths don’t keep people coming to Mass… then you seem to be saying it is MY responsibility to keep them coming!?!?
It seems that we are bringing the “consumer” mentality into God’s house…i.e. “give them more violence and sex in our movies and more people will pay us to see them” etc. “Give them more drums and guitars and Praise Music and they will keep coming to Mass.”
There are many, many, types of music and tastes in music. One could go crazy trying to suite everyone’s taste…in fact, it is an impossiblity.
It seems like the only way out of this quandry is to look at the documents and see what the Church says about music for Her holy liturgies. The documents are guided by the Holy Spirit, we can rest sure in that fact! Many of the debates over music and styles of worship are not guided by the Holy Spirit…we can certainly rest sure in that fact.
This isn’t the latest Broadway musical we are participating in every week, one in which we have to incoporate the catchiest tunes so the show can run for many weeks…it is an act of worship. If people are leaving the Church because of Gregorian Chant, if their “needs” are met by this music that the Church holds in such high regard, isn’t this “self-centered” attitude towards worship the real problem?
Thank you.
It occurs to me that “education” is the first and most significant duty of the Catholic church musician–and the analogy which applies is the one to “formation” of the Catholic conscience.
One’s un-formed taste in music is, frankly, irrelevant–just as one’s un-formed conscience is irrelevant to a discussion of ‘formal/informal’ cooperation (e.g.)
It is also not really a matter of ‘attracting an audience,’–the proper framework would be ‘not REPELLING Catholics.’
Finally, as others who are a LOT smarter than I am have observed, the entire concept of worshipping Almighty God is in a very dark corner these days in the materialistic and wealthy (degenerate??) West.
Who needs God? We have MasterCard! Strive for Heaven? Fooey. We have air-conditioning.
Eschatology now means age 75 or so…
I am catholic, 24 years old, and I can say that what is appealing is tradition.
No adaptation is needed. Use good poliphony, or gregorian chant. Every catholic should have a copy of the Graduale Romanum.
Personally, I am of the opinion that vernacular sacred music will never match the beauty and richness of the Latin language music. The treasuries of Latin language sacred music are boundless, not only due to the beauty of the music, but also due to the doctrinal content expressed in the text.
Lirycs composed by St. Thomas Aquinas, Venancius Fortunatus and others cannot be simply replaced by Father John Doe, from the Diocese´s Liturgy Pastoral Office.
Vernacular adaptations of those Latin texts are poor, and original vernacular compositions are even worse. Let´s stick to the Ordo Cantus Missae.
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