A Musical Journey through GIRM: § 90 – Concluding Rites
Article 90 outlines the concluding rites of the Mass. What isn’t said by the article is worth mentioning.
90. The concluding rites consist of
- Brief announcements, if they are necessary;
- The priest’s greeting and blessing, which on certain days and occasions is enriched and expressed in the prayer over the People or another more solemn formula;
- The dismissal of the people by the deacon or the priest, so that each may go out to do good works, praising and blessing God;
- The kissing of the altar by the priest and the deacon, followed by a profound bow to the altar by the priest, the deacon, and the other ministers.
Something that just occurred to me in reading this. In the 1962 Rite, the closing dialogue “V. Ite, missa est. R. Deo gratias.” is followed by another Gospel reading (Jn 1-14). In the Pauline Rite, we say, “Our closing hymn is…” Others can tell you the origins of both practices. To me, to have something that keeps the congregation in the pews after they have just been dismissed—whether it be codified (1962) or normative practice (1969)—seems counter-intuitive. Given that, the soaring words of the Eagle seem much more inspiring than the soaring melody of “On Eagle’s Wings” or most other hymns.
Just a thought from a pew-sitter-to-be.
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[...] Dominus dabit begninitatem, with verses from Psalm 84(85) (Chant, Mode I) [ gif | mp3 ] Postcommunion:1: chanted “Benedicamus Domino” dialogue1: chanted “Benedicat vos” dialogue: [...]
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[...] Antiphon: 1 Corinthians 5:7-8. Verses: Psalm 65(66) (Gregorian chant, Mode VI) [ gif | mp3 ] Postcommunion:1: chanted “Ite missa est” dialogue1: Paschal formulary “Benedicat vos” [...]
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I never thought of this before — can you think of a musicla setting (either congregational or choral,) of that beginning of John’s Gospel?
Wouldn’t that be stanrgely appropriate to both progressives and neo-traditionalists?
We had a visiting priest a few weeks ago at our parish who made it perfectly clear that people were not to leave before the final blessing and dismissal(there are always a few who try to sneak out right after communion). I think he really upset the musicians, because quite a few people then realized that they didn’t have to stay for the closing song.
Most of the churches I’ve been to in Europe had an instrumental recessional, including the Notre Dame of Paris. If you ever get a chance to hear the organist there, you’ll remember it for the rest of your life.
The reading of the intro to John’s Gospel, as well as the prayers that used to follow low mass have both been suppressed since one has been dismissed. On the otherhand, it is appropriate to remain in thanksgiving for a little while after. I have heard of some churches reviving the St. Michael prayer which they recite after the priest processes out. A exit hymn is appropriate in seasons where silence is not the better option. Any talented musicians out there who could do justice to a musical rending of “In principio erat verbum…”?
To “Me”:
I don’t know of a musical setting of the beginning of John’s Gospel, but I agree with you that it’s strangely appropriate to the parties you mentioned.
To Laura:
Some “quick-and-dirty” ways to set John 1:1-14:
I’ll post examples in the near future.
Glad to see some priests are telling the truth — even if accidentally — about the musicians’ place at Mass. The “music mafia” tends to think the Mass is about them, and that everyone and everything should bend to their musical — and egotistical — desires.
It has been great to see our parish grow from a concert mentality of after-Mass clappers to those who begin leaving as soon as the celebrant has exited.
The musicians are there for the Mass, not the other way around, despite what most musical directors seem to think.
Jason speculates that “The musicians are there for the Mass, not the other way around…”
Were people made to serve the Mass or was the Mass instituted to serve the people? Based on Jesus’ words about the Sabbath, I lean toward the Mass being made for the people.
While the main purpose is to feed us in Word and in Eucharist, another purpose is to provide a formal setting for us to praise God in song.
Whenever I was applauded or thanked by the celebrant, I was motivated to improve my playing and singing.
I will tell you that God is very pleased with our heart-felt songs even when they are off-key and half a beat late. He is not so pleased at our bickering about what is best and putting down other peoples viewpoints.
When you chose a song, first ask the Lord, “What do you want to hear?” Try not to look so surprised when you get an answer.
God bless,
Al
I’d like to test the waters to see if I and mine will be branded as musically inappropriate. Our parish has a new Praise band which I lead. We are 8 in number with a full rock band makeup & 5 vocalists. We play when and where we can in a contemporary P & W style with Catholic sensitivity. Needless to say, we make some waves as our music is heard and digested. We are slowly but surely compiling a repetoire of original “Catholic” praise and worship songs that speak to the Trinitry and the Eucharist. However, we also have a long playlist of popular praise and worship songs written by non Catholic worship leaders that are phenomenal in the strength of message. A bit “Jesus centric” for some, but the message is good. Whether or not any of you are fans of the Charismatic Renewal and the rising tide of joyful personal worship that it has birthed, the rising of the tide itself cannot denied. It ebbed for a while under strong scutiny, but it is rising again stronger that ever. At St Bart’s in Katy TX we are fighting a desparate fight to keep our youth from jumping ship and attending non Catholic churches for the music. Though it must be supportive of, appropriate to and secondary to the liturgy, I am convinced that the key to getting them to stay is the music. As a wise priest once told me “We can’t feed then if they ain’t here.” With LifeTeen a resounding success (with some temperance) all over America, how can we not move in this direction? The major questions we are fighting our way through are:
1. What songs are appropriate & where?
2. What instruments are approprtae & where?
We have a traditional mass (organ piano, 3/4 part harmonies). a contemporary mass (guitar, tamborine, piano, flute, drums, bass guitar), and a Hispanic mass (where most anything goes). Each of these masses speaks to a different subculture within our diverse parish of 2400 families. The only subculture left out is the youth. We are out to change that. Our pastor attended a youth retreat last weekend and finally heard our band do a complete mass and a concert after. He was blown away, and is now in our court.
Anything like this happening out there? I sure hope so! We need it.
We are getting older and older and ….
In Christ
Tom McRae
P.S. I am 29 years old (with 30 years experience)
I wish you luck, Tom, but I think you’re going about it all the wrong way.
I would think the same thing of a church musician promoting high baroque Masses with full orchestra to bring in the neglected “subculture” of “classical music buffs with a lot of money,” or a zydecoe mass because that music was enjoying a vogue among the Yuppies in town, or a Fox-trot mass because all the 60 and 70 year olds were feeling disenfranchised.
Lowest common denominator “what style of music is popular NOW?” liturgies are a sure-fire road to obsolescence.
No, you can’t feed ‘em if they ain’t there, but if you fed ‘em when they were small and more important, taught them the value and utter uniqueness of that nourishment, and didn’t mislead them that their pleasure and enjoyment is paramount, you wouldn’t lose ‘em in the first place, and you wouldn’t risk losing them when their tastes mature.
The most devout people in the church are the ones who are know how execrable the music is and foolish the liturgies are that they attend, and attend them anyway.
Wonder how many Lifeteeners would quit attending Mass altogether if you told them you would be playing the output of Barry Manilow-wannabe Minnesotans, or medieval organum, or Greek Catholic chant — think they really know why they’re there?
The Church has lot most of 2 generations of Catholics by trying to be trendy and pop and furnish people with the aesthetic fad of the moment, and you’re trying to remedy the situation by doing the same thing.
“The most devout people in the church are the ones who are know how execrable the music is and foolish the liturgies are that they attend, and attend them anyway.”
As though the ones who attend a baroque orchestral high Mass and derive some uplift from it are somehow less than devout? Only the ones that endure poor music and sloppy ceremonial are worthy. If logic serves me right I think this is a silogism.
I’ve “met” Tom on-line a few years ago, and he’s since shared with me some of his songs. They’re really good. Tom–if you have written more, I’d be very interested in them.
In terms of complimentary styles, you must remember that contemporary Praise & Worship is a style unto itself, and not merely an exercise in following the pop music of today. Those who know pop music today know that it sounds nothing like the contempoary praise music–hip hop has emerged as the dominant musical format, and no Lifeteen liturgy I’ve seen has embraced a hip-hop mass (for which we can all bow our heads and offer waves of complete gratitude).
Instead, I support Catholic based P&W because of it’s enduring vertical focus. If you were to jump back in time and look at the lyrics of the enduring hymns, you’d find that the vast majority of them are God-centric, and not people-centric. When Glory & Praise came out, despite a few notable exceptions, most of the songs were actually horizontal songs, or God-to-people songs. Praise and Worship returns the focus.
I also appreciate P&W’s simplicity. It’s the same simplicity that one appreciates in Taize chant, or a negro spiritual, or Ps 137. When it’s simple, it more affects the heart. When the text of the P&W is tied with a Scripture verse, it becomes all the more powerful, as it becomes ingrained in the congregant.
I don’t believe in doing P&W music at the exclusion of the meatier, headier hymns, which engage the mind. I believe in the complementariness of both.
Mark, sorry, I didn’t express myself well.
I did not mean to imply that lovers of good music, or lovers of rock or Mariachi or Cary Landry, for that matter, are less devout.
I meant that ANY of those who would absent themselves from liturgy entirely because their tastes are not catered to are obviously less devout and have a lesser understanding of the Mystery that takes place than those who, come hell or high water, come ear-splitting rock or tone-deaf would-be opera singers, know that Jesus is Really Present in the Eucharist, and go to Mass for Him.
In fact in my experience (and ONLY my experience, others’ mileage may vary,) those with … I don’t want to say better, but certainly more REFINED sensibilities and taste in, and education about, music, i.e. the classical music lovers you thought I was slamming, are more faithful in their practice than those whose taste runs more to pop. They ARE the ones who always show up at the Lord’s Table even when they don’t like the soundtrack.
I think luring people in by appealing almost exclusively to their current taste in an artform which by its very nature is ever-changing (again, pop music as opposed to forms which have stood and are MEANT to stand the test of time, which would include genuine fold, classical, baroque, traditional hymnody, the various forms of liturgical chant,) is butt stupid and doomed to failure.
I disagree that P & W is all that far removed MUSICALLY (as opposed to textually, where I agree, it is taking us in good directions) from currents in pop music. It’s musical vocabulary is just a little retro (not quite as embarrassing as Kids of the Kingdom, say, but close.)
And count yourself lucky, Nick, I HAVE heard hip-hop at a contemporary liturgy.
It’s part of an ongoing (CENTURIES old,) confusion of what is acceptable for Devotion or Catechesis and what is acceptable for Liturgy.
“Butt stupid” now there’s an adjective – anyway.. I cannot get blogged down here. I am BUTT SURE of one reality, and that is the the modern church is losing it’s youth. Are we to stand by? I’m talking the finger in the dyke here! Bottom line is, there are those who think P & W is trite and simplistic and has no place, but there are others who come at it from another angle. The wamanb at the well was trash; I was trash, yet God desires my sincere worship and He will take and mold and bless whatever I offer to him with a TRUE HEART. Water to wine. Rules are fine, and for that reason I am Catholic (converted in 1998). I want and love the Eucharist and the constancy of the sacrifice and the celebration – but I have the advantage of having attended services in many denominations & masses in all different cultures and I know of what I speak. We are behind!
This is a time for Strategic planning and tactical action! The dam is bursting! We are hemmoraging our finest to the big NON-DOMS & that is a fact! Do I sound passionate; well *I certainly hope so. I am 59 years old and I see time running out.
I think its a crime and sign of bad parenting that we have allowed ourselves to ignore this and fall so far behind. This move of personal vertical worship can no more be stopped than a Tsunami. It knows no denomination. It is God calling out deep to deep and heart to heart, claiming that which is his.
Perhaps we Catholics could use a good dose of old time revival, huh?
By the way – nice to hear from you NIck. Can you accept a couple more song submissions?
If we went to all Gregorian Chant at all masses, it would be as much a statement of our human taste in this place and time as a hip hop mass. The Lord has given us the Bible, the sacraments and the Holy Spirit. The way these are expressed/celebrated has always been changing and modifying by time and place and that is a good thing. I think the most devout people are those who respect the expressions of many times and places and can hear the spirit of devotion in many styles, and respect with charity the sensibilities of others. Church musicians should respect the sensibilities of those worshipping, whichever way they lean. If there is a mix, then the music should reflect that. I would hope that a community united in faith would be open enough to eachother’s tastes that we wouldn’t have to do away with music altogether on account of bickering and insults over issues of style.
“The Lord has given us the Bible, the sacraments and the Holy Spirit. ”
Amen.
But the Lord also gave us the Church, and she is not silent on the subject of what music is and is not suitable for Liturgy.
Ah yes- SHE (the Church) is not silent, but nor is SHE clear in Her instructions. The music gurus at diocese level are trying to make their minds up about us, and it’s driving them nuts. You see, within the Diocese, there are several parishes with flourishing Life Teen programs, and every single one has “youth” masses which offer all the sanctity of any other mass but in a format and musical style that young people 15-25 understand and want. People are loving it and coming back to church. This puts the higher- ups in a bind. Tell us we cannot play this music in church and you they denying the very thing that has been approved and is WILDLY SUCCESSFULL at other parishes! What a dilema! I know I must sound like a nut and a trouble maker, but what I truly suffer from is a huge case of passion. I truly love some of the stuff we play from the Glory and Praise and the Gather, but since I cannot make a distinction between My God and the NON-DOM God, I cannot hold this music in higher esteem than that written by the TRULY inspired non-Catholic song writers. I have huge respect for them because I have played quite a lot with non-Catholic musicians in worship sessions. I have seen up close how powerful this music is and believe me WE NEED IT!
This is not a fly-by-night movement and we are not going to stop singing, praying, asking hard questions and pushing the envelope until SHE makes HER mind up once and for all. If we are the universal church, then let’s be just that. Let us serve, and touch and reach out to everyone – universally! Let us serve God better by doing whatever we have to do to bring the young people to the throne room, by showing them that they can be as close to Jesus as to their parents or their priests.
BTW the servantsheart.cc page is finally growing. Our Calendar (part of it) is posted and pix, bios, links and eventually sound bites will follow.
In Christ
Tom McRae
As Jack Aubrey might say, “You’ve come to the wrong shop for Anarchy, brother.”
“Ah yes- SHE (the Church) is not silent, but nor is SHE clear in Her instructions.”
I am not sure how much clearer the Church could be. You are correct that much is permitted by way of exception. But exceptions are permitted to many general rules, and we would probably say a priest who consistently eliminated all music from the liturgy, or opted for individual instruction rather than RCIA, or called people up to stand around the altar for the consecration, or who sat out the distribution of Communion, was either woefully ignorant of matters it was his duty to know about, or purposefully and arrogantly flouting the express requirements of the Church.
So it is not even implicit, it is explicit what the conscienscious musician or liturgist should put his effort into. It is disingenuous to pretend otherwise, I think.
“Gregorian chant is the music characteristic of the Roman Church. Therefore, its use is not only permitted, but encouraged at all liturgical ceremonies above all other styles of music, unless circumstances demand otherwise” (De Musica Sacra, 16).
“The Church acknowledges Gregorian chant as specially suited to the Roman liturgy: therefore, all things being equal, it should be given pride of place in liturgical services” (Sacrosanctum Concilium, 116)
“All other things being equal, Gregorian chant holds pride of place because it is proper to the Roman Liturgy.” (IGMR 41)
Hi Bennet…
I apologize for not having my documents of Vatican II on me, (my daily job working as a computer programmer does not require me to have this), but Tom is right. You can take only so many quotes from Vatican II, but there are many others that seem to be in Tom’s favor. And… as evidenced by the tons of comments off this blogsite, there are many, many ways to interpret Vatican II.
To take certain comments from Vatican II and ignore the contrarian statements therein is tantamount to being a Catholic Jehovah’s Witness. We both know that Vatican II’s exceptions to music are related to the cultural environment where the mass is held. And most folks on this board will hate to hear this, and live in their world of everybody in the liturgy fully participating in chant and polyphonies, but the broader world, especially the young people, are in a different cultural environment than you.
I will say this to Marge–P&W music is flexible. That means it can be done with rock guitars, or it can be done with piano and violin, or it can be done a cappella. That is its genius. If it’s done with rock guitars and drums, it is still different than the typical rock band–and here’s why–the typical rock band will play secular music with all the style of the world, drawing attention to itself, case in point: electric guitar solos. The contemporary worship band will have none of that. All music in this case will be drawn upward, to God, and there is no place for crazy vocal dynamics and electric guitar solos there. In this case, they’re more God-centered than most polyphonies and classical music, which is almost entirely done by a professional choir, and not communal in nature.
I apologize for any anger this post may incite. But I know where Tom is coming from, and nobody on this board is really addressing the issues that he’s bringing up. You can obey every dictate of Vatican II, ignoring the exceptions, sing in chant and polyphonies and obey every single canonical law–but if you have not love, you are a clanging cymbal.
Thanks Nick
The case here really is for love. People like me are painted as radicals and anarchists, but in reality all we want is honesty within the body ogf Christ.
Can anyone honestly say that we are reaching our young people when we don’t try to speak their cultural language? Anyone who has raised a teenager (and I have raised three) knows that the only road to success is communication – as complete as possible.
I have an unofficial but authoritative stat for you all. In parishes with strong youth outreach programs, which includes youth oriented masses and in most cases, LifeTeen or LifeTeen “TYPE” programs, the retention rate of the young people as active church members after confirmation is 70-80 % – as opposed to 30-40% in parishes where there is no such youth outreach. Are these 30 % not our resoponsibility? If not, whose? How do think God feels about his His Church if it does not take on this parenting problem? Vatican this Vatican that! I am not trivializing the authority of the church. What I am doing is trying to get someone’s attention. We are the church and we are sleeping. We are the body of Christ, yet we are not willing to humble ourselves in service. We are comfortable.
We need to examine ourselves and ask some hard questions. The admittedly over-used “WWJD” is wonderfully applicable here.
What WOULD he do?
Would he not do whatever he had to do short of disobeying his Father’s will? Did he not? Was he not patient? Did he not even go so far as to paraphrase his own parables so that people would understand? Did he throw ANYONE away!!??
I think the perfect outreach prayer is, “Lord, never allow me to be satisfied with what I have done for you”.
Why is it that we will eagerly (and piously) go out and serve Thanksgiving dinner to homeless people (whom we never have seen before and hope we never have to see again), yet – when it comes to feeding our own spirtually hungry children, we fall back on excuses?
My God, I pray you open our hearts. Mother Mary, pray for us that we develope just a tiny speck of your generousity.
Come on people, get out of your comfort zones. It’s scary, but it’s also great!
Tom McRae
Gee, I thought singing praise to Almighty God was appropriate. Evidently, unless it’s done in the P&W style, it’s all for naught. The paradigm that’s always set forth is the wicked traditional music people oppressing the virtuous “folk.” We’ve had years and years of appalling mediocrity and simplistic appeals to silver bullets isn’t going to fix a thing. I seriously question the liturgical appropriateness of P&W music–it’s fine for so-called non-denominational churches. Why don’t we fix up the preaching and welcoming in our parishes before blaming the music ministry for what ails our church?
Our parish’s new director of music has thrown out all of the cheesy and insipid music that we loved to sing and programs only chant and hymns written prior to V2. In the past 18 months the results have been that many parishioners are going to other parishes where the hymns are at least singable and english (or spanish) and most of our teens are going across town to the non-denom praise service with a rock band. Those who stay don’t sing. Ours is a case where we are suffering greatly because of the desire of one person to “right” the “wrongs” that have nevertheless enabled us to fully and actively pariticpate with love, gusto and sincerity. But its better to not sing good music than to sing “cheese”
“Our parish’s new director of music has thrown out all of the cheesy and insipid music that we loved to sing and programs only chant and hymns written prior to V2.”
I think you’ve posted this complaint on other websites too. Talk about axes to grind!
Mark
Actually I’ve never posted on a blog before. I’m new to all of this. The ax is in your court I guess.
l.g.,
Who’s suffering? The people who are going to the other parishes across town? If their desire to be entertained at Mass is being fulfilled elsewhere I guess they are getting what they want. As for those who have decided to go to non-denom churches on the basis of the music, I guess it was a pretty weak faith to begin with, and perhaps with some time and maturity they will come to see what being a Catholic means. Frankly, the argument that kids want or need praise music over chants or traditional hymns is a pretty flimsy claim. It’s all about the education. I teach public school (7-12) vocal music and am also the music director at our parish, and I honestly find the teen crowd to be the most accepting and interested people when it comes to liturgical relevance and theological interpretation of traditional music. The educated know when the music they are doing is high quailty and once introduced correctly, they will prefer it. We had, for example, a fascinating discussion recently about the interpretation of the word ‘immolatum’ in the Ave Verum Corpus (we happened to be doing the Flor Peeters) and the choir members were sharing whether the immolation would be more than just a ‘crushing’ of something but rather a transfiguring of one object to another as in wheat to flour. One young man lit up and said, “oh, I get it, like the bread changing to the body for Catholics.” Incidentally, that was in my freshman choir at a public high school in a little midwestern town. It’s about education. Music directors have a responsibility to do more than just mandate music changes. They have to teach. I love twinkies. But have you ever read what they’re made of? Makes you want to eat something better for you and in the end you might prefer it. But you have to read the ingredients first, otherwise you just ignorantly enjoy the taste.
We live in the most exciting time to be a Catholic, when we can reintroduce the tradition and beauty of the Church’s liturgy, especially as it is manifested in the music, and do so in a way which educates the congregation at the same time. What a powerful tool for our faith!
Kford…
I am very dismayed by your post. It appears that you are pitting contemporary praise music versus belief in the Eucharist. If the kids aren’t getting the praise music, then good riddance–let them enjoy the non-denom service. Such a thought disgusts me.
This is not an either-or situation. Teens are teens–they’re still learning. We need to provide the environment where they could learn about the Eucharist and the power and graces of the Catholic church while speaking their language.
L.G.–Thanks for sharing what you did. It’s a welcome, sobering tonic. I will be praying for your parish.
Mark P.– you tell me how to fix our preaching in our parishes, and I (as a layman, a musician, and a husband) will gladly do it. In the meantime, I will fix what I have authority to fix. (Even changing the music around is subject to the priest’s final decisions).
Still – no answers or even honest discussion of my issues, just denial . I repeat the REALITY of TODAY.
…In parishes with strong youth outreach programs, which includes youth oriented masses and in most cases, LifeTeen or LifeTeen “TYPE” programs, the retention rate of the young people as active church members after confirmation is 70-80 % – as opposed to 30-40% in parishes where no such programs exist…
Mark ( I think)
You are correct the the key is education, but don’t worry; no one is too old to learn. Excuse my sarcasm, but time is short. We can come together to save them from drug use and cigarettes and pornography, but we cannot seem to bring ourselves to reach out to them and lead them to God? Satan absolutely loves this!
We have a generation at risk and our collective heads are stuck up our …. well, let’s say stuck in the sand. I guess we’re hoping that after a length of time we can peek up and all those troublesome kids will be all grown up and proper Catholics. Well, you know what, that ain’t gonna happen! We’re gonna look up and they’re gonna be gone. OK? Problem solved? We’ll just shake our heads and say something like, “I guess it was a pretty weak faith to begin with …”
Shame – on – us!
OK – to cool down a bit, let me give some details on what we actually do. We do P/W music for gathering & sending forth but contemporary hymns from the Glory & Praise for Prep & Communion. True, we do juice it up a bit with guitar, bass and drums, (at our pastor’s request) but still we keep the flavor. We do mass parts from SLJ or May or one we wrote ourselves called the New LIfe Mass. Never once have we busted a guitar in the choir area or interrupted the litugy with a screaming demon guitar solo; however, we have on occasion offered up a beautiful guitar solo for meditation or prelude, or a rousing drum thing for We Are One Body. Every bit as uplifting as an organ grind I think. And by the way, we recently did a mass dedicating our new rectory and our Bishop Fiorenza precided. He complemented the choir on the “fresh, joyous & uplifting” music.
You know, it just dawned on me. Maybe this isn’t a “discussion” of appropriate music for the mass as much as it is a discussion of musical style in general.
I am beginning to see where revolutions and revolutionaries come from.
And we wonder why people laugh at us?! WWJD?
Well, I will apologize for my flippant remark. What I intended to convey, though, is that my sense of this site (and please correct me if I’m wrong) is that its primary audience is musicians of the “old school” – however you would define that. I direct a choir which sings with organ and handbell accompaniment. I have no authority, experience, or knowledge of the P&W area, and I’m happy that way. I’m not denigrating what they do, I just want to read about the music and issues that affect our ministry (which does include young people). I honestly don’t think this is primarily an age issue, but people (including young people) have different tastes, and we should not apologize for trying to uplift and inspire by means of “O Sacred Head Surrounded”. I don’t want to stop anyone else from using their ministry to do the same thing, but I have no advice to offer you on that topic.
Aristotle,
Please accept my apologies.
Aristotle,
I wish to say that I have greatly appreciated this site. It has become a valuable clearing house for information on all sorts of topics, liturgical/musical. I consider myself to be a music director who is attempting a careful balancing act in my own parish right now–especially with a new pastor as of recent. I have reminded some of the staff and other members of our parish that sometimes the only thing that all of our folks will do together is to sing! Needless to say, I take this responsibility very seriously, in the interest of being a tool of true unity (not uniformity of thought) in my parish.
God bless you for the work you have done, and continue to do.
Greg & all
I’m not as insensitive as I sound. The music you describe is wonderful and will always have a place at the core of the mass – but – it is not everyone’s preference. A lot of people need simpler, more forthright lyrics (in English) and songs that engage them to “fully participate”.
Oh I don’t know, I really do love the church, but I am indeed concerned. I was Baptist until 1998, and I bring a unique view.
But – I’m too tired on this Texas night to type anymore. Before bed I have to stamp out 3, 15-song playlists for a Praise & Worship retreat we are hosting on Saturday.
The Peace of Christ be with you all
Tom
Aristotle, my apologies.
“music you describe is wonderful and will always have a place at the core of the mass – but – it is not everyone’s preference”
I think there is a flaw in this thinking. Some of those “pushing” chant are NOT doing so because it is thier “preference.”
I thought the chant afficinados in my parish, when I was growing up, were well-meaning wackos.
I was completely uninformed on the subject, and it appears, so were the people in charge.
My PREFERENCE is for big Anglican style anthems, and late baroque ordinaries.
So what? MY personal preference or my personal opinion of what will “work” best doesn’t really matter, any more than does yours, or the priest’s, or that of the person in the pew, or the liturgists, or the Pope’s.
What matters is what the Church Universal in authoratatively promulgated documents has asked for, and anyone who hasn’t honestly tried to do that, over a period of several YEARS at least (that is what I am told it took in many places to really get people to respond to even the spoken part of the Mass in English,) with strong leadership form the altar and the loft (or mike) is taking the lazy, easy way out if he concentrates on music that is his”preference” rather than that which is supposed to be given pride of place.
p.s. At my Chruch, the “easy” was/ is a combination of big choral Mass parts, and lovely, (if, sorry, slightly cheesy,) “power” ballads that a core of good singers love but for which the congregation clamps their mouths shut.
But the second year of little bits of chant, there are 7 year olds saying Jesu Dulcis Memoria is the most beautiful song they’ve ever sung, and virtually everybody singing out on the sacramentary Our Father and the psalm response of the day done a capella to the Gregorian psalm tones.
So it can be done. But no, it won’t work if nobody tries.
I know this has been discussed before, but I still can’t find an answer (sorry if one has been posted and I didn’t notice it). I have been using the communion antiphons by James Biery for lent and advent and they are being received extremely well. We LOVE the use of a responsorial psalm during communion. People have said they can pray AND sing (pretty cool, huh??) Anyway, Mr. Biery hasn’t come out with ones for ordinay time and I could write some in that R&A style but I have no clue where to find english verses for the communion antiphon. What resource is there for finding these- in fact, are there specific verses or just refrains for each liturgy? Do you include any psalms that are appropriate? If anyone knows more about this than me (which shouldn’t be hard…) please help me out. Thanks!
P.S., you all realize we are ALL (P&W, trad’s, etc.) in for a big surprise in heaven… I am pretty sure God plays jazz.
I lurk on this site and have found Aristotle’s postings here to be extremely useful. Especially the parts on the ‘bad hymns’ and the summaries of the vatican documents.
The root of the matter is this:
what does the Church want in the music at Mass?
(Note: it is not “what do *we* want in the music at Mass?”)
This is what this site is all about.
The truth is, music is like food (in the words of an orchestra conductor I know). The tasty food is always not the most nutritious. Only when you take the time to appreciate the benefits of the nutritious food will you start to desire them more.
Thank you so much, Aristotle.
Hi Aristotle…
Thank you for your insight on this site. Thanks for helping provide a forum where we can discuss matters like this. I know I’ve said some incensed statements, and I’m sorry for that.
The Church has stated two things. It has stated that chant and polyphony are to be held in pride and place in the music for liturgies. It also said that it desires for full active vocal participation of the congregants at certain times, most notably Communion.
It’s not that these two statements are contradictory… they’re not. They just seem contradictory at 99% of the parishes in the US and abroad. And it stinks when you have congregations that are so fickle that if you make a change of this sort that they would just as easily up and move to another church, perhaps a non-Catholic one.
If this is not a problem at your parish, kudos to you, and please share how your parish got to this point, and how a layperson convinced a priest that this was the way to go. But for the rest of us, some sort of compromise is warranted.
But even this compromise cannot be all bad. If a contemporary song invokes the use of Scripture in a way that resonates with the listener/congregant/singer, then this Scripture will not return in void. This, I assure you, is not junk food.
Peace…
k ford
“P.S., you all realize we are ALL (P&W, trad’s, etc.) in for a big surprise in heaven… I am pretty sure God plays jazz.
”"
for that matter, I’m pretty sure there are no Catholics in Heaven (or Baptists, or Methodists, or non-doms), just Christians all of whom will be educated in the end. (some more than others)
God is good
Has anyone ever considered that much contemporary popular music tends to be sentimental, superficial, and emotionally overwrought? This is not to disparage pop music – it is deliberately written in this way because this is what sells. There isn’t a lot of subtlety to the songs in “The Lion King” or a toothpaste commercial. Is this the music we want for the liturgy? P & W may pack ‘em in now, but it seems to me to be a quick fix. Don’t get me wrong – I like some songs from the Lion King, have found myself humming tunes from commercials, and even enjoy playing P&W songs on the piano. But the liturgy (and those participating in it) deserve better.
I guess what I’m concerned about is not so much some masses having pop stuff (P&W, Haugen, or whatever). It’s that this has taken over so completely that any other expression is suffocated. A lot of it is It’s also very commercially driven.) The emphasis is no longer on the liturgy and how music can enhance it, but on people getting “into” songs, expressing their faith. This isn’t bad in itself; in fact, it’s a decent start for “active participation,” but so often it stops here.
But the liturgy is not about us and our faith so much as God’s action – we being incorporated into Christ’s sacrifice. So the entire liturgy should be concentrating on bringing us to that level. It should be “transparent” – giving us a glimpse beyond our own personal emotions and desires. I find that precious little of the stuff that’s sung at most masses has any concept of this. I don’t just mean “getting us out of ourselves” like good pop music can often do. It has to take us to the right place.
As other people have noted, after 2000 years the Church does have a bit to say about this. They’ve mentioned Gregorian chant and polyphony. I think that these are put up as models for us, not necessarily in style, but in spirit. To my mind, its spirit is completely the opposite of pop music as I described it above, the very antithesis of sentimental, over-wrought, and superficial. That doesn’t make it dry, turgid, and “heavy.” It’s just transparent and allows the meaning of the liturgy to just “be there” for us to enter into it, without noise, busyness, or forced emotion. In my humble opinion, this is more important that catering to what people want (or think they want).
Sam
I actually agree with you in large part., and
though I do blow a bit, I do appreciate the magesty of the organ and of the liturgy. I will openly admit that I am biased toward more contemporary stuff because if was the Charismatic Renewal that what drew me into God’s presence in the first place – and a couple of years later into RCIA and full communion with the Church. Of course, the renewal music was all “hands up” so it live sin mynheart as a symbol the joy of having found my way out of a desert that was killing me, physically and spiritually.
However, I came out of my God encounter with a very strong conviction that no one should be denied the chance I got because of convention. Yes, let us preserve the sanctity of the mass, but let us also examine those places where we can expand the outreach and explore new ways of expressing our love for Him.
I keep praying and asking and God keeps teaching and not always the way I expect. For
instance when I first converted, I had a hard time accepting Mary’s place in the Church. After much prayer and guilt, I took it to confession, and my priest advised me to talk to her about it, in my prayer language – which is music. So I did, and a song formed in my heart. I took that somng to my music director and now that Hail Mary is regularly sung during mass at our church. The first time we sang it for Preparation, Father asked us where we found that song. He was blown away to hear that we had written it.
He said, “I guess god knows what he likes to hear, huh?”
Well, I guess he does. Never sell Him short.
AS I have said before, I think the neediest
I have some mixed feelings about the arguments put forth here; on the one hand, I totally agree that if people are only coming for the music, there’s a problem, and we shouldn’t program our music to cater to one specific passing fad.
On the other hand, every time I read an argument about having a “church style” distinct from secular music trends, it seems a little amazing to me that it is used to dismiss most post-V2 music. But those *are* my “church style”, and let me tell you, “Here I am, Lord”, “City of God” et al are *nothing* like the secular music I listen to. I was born in the late 70s, so whenever I see music ministers claiming that we should throw out the newfangled pop and return to chant and psalm tones, my thought is, “What about me? For me, it’s not newfangled, it’s definitely not pop, and a move to chant and psalm tones is not a ‘return’ to anything.” When people leave your parish for other (Catholic) parishes, that shouldn’t be taken as an indication that they view music as paramount, and that their faith is therefore somehow weak; just that, all else equal, they prefer music that they like.
That said, I’m very much for working in the older forms. I love the incredible connection it brings to the Catholic church worldwide, and to the church of decades and centuries past. My congregation seems to agree:
For Lent our pastor told the choir “no Mass parts”. I was sad, because I had hoped to work in at least a Kyrie and an Agnus Dei, chanted and in Greek/Latin*, and had thought that Lent would be an excellent time for this, liturgically. I talked to him, and it turns out he just didn’t want us doing our usual Mass parts, which were the St Louis Jesuits’ Mass: too upbeat, and with the extra whammy that the Great Amen has an “alleluia” in it. When I explained my thinking about working in the chanted forms, he got visibly excited and gave it his ok. We introduced it two Sundays ago, totally a cappella and with no congregational “practice session” (ugh), and the WHOLE CONGREGATION sang along. Several commented later, and the only negative comment was one lady that knew the melody but couldn’t exactly remember all the words.** This was resolved with a taped-in insert in the back of the hymnals. In any case, though, the congregation seems to really like it.
Generally, I think the right direction to take with this is to forge on ahead with the stylistically varied Masses, but never so varied that they can’t include some unifying elements. It’s also important, when “fixing” any of this, to avoid doing any of it too abruptly—ease into the chant and such gradually, always remembering that there is now a large segment of the congregation for which this is not a “return” but a completely new development.
* Maybe someone here can help with this. The Agnus Dei is from Mass XVIII, which everyone knows. The Kyrie is one that I’ve sung at at least a half-dozen different churches, and which nearly everyone seems to know, but none of the hymnals have it and it’s not in the Kyriale Romanum. It’s in minor and starts with the first line on me-do-do-do-do-te-do in solfege; any ideas who wrote it or where it’s from?
** G&P doesn’t include any of the old chanted Kyrie and Agnus Dei forms. Why, oh why, did this town select G&P? *sigh*
Btw, you can get the music for program inserts for the various Jubilate Deo settings (which include many of those chestnuts) for free, online, in pdf form, as noted in prior threads on this and other blogs.
I have been intrigued by so many who found my comments offensive, most specifically that those who would leave the Catholic Church on the basis of the music are weak in faith, and that perhaps with time, maturity and education they will come to find the reality of Catholicism. I feel the need to clarify for those that did not read clearly what I stated earlier: there is a definite difference between those who go to St. Marty’s across town because they prefer the musical choices there (a great thing to find a Catholic church that appeals to you aesthetically, and one cannot deny that this appeal can enhance one’s spiritual experience) and LEAVING the Catholic Church (forsaking the sacraments and ulitmately denying for one’s self the consistent theology of Catholicism) because of the music, regardless of its style. I am sorry but that is WEAK FAITH plain and simple. What sickens and disturbs me (to borrow the words of others) is the thought that one would give up their Catholicism so easily. My campus parish in university years was so “progressive” ( bad term in this case, sorry) that they did things like had students share in the recitation of the eucharistic prayers- the priest didn’t wear vestments- anyone could read the gospel– we’re not talking issues of musical taste here; but NEVER did I consider leaving the Catholic Church. We hiked across town and went to the community parish instead. Most people own cars , so it is not impossible to find a parish fairly near that should cater to one’s musical needs– IF that is of such great concern. However, the response that pastoral musicians have an obligation to alter music to accomodate those who would freely leave the Catholic Church seems to do noone any good, least of all the individual in question. What should be of greater concern is what kind of core faith we are establishing in young people. Again, sorry, but I know too many people whose “catechetical” teaching consisted of volleyball and pizza parties. If there’s something to be disturbed and sickened about, it’s what would cause those who would leave the Church to leave in the first place. One commenter said I was pitting liturgical music against a belief in the Eucharist. If there is one thing most of the posters on this site have in common, it is that we all appear to have a fierce and unshakeable faith in the Eucharist. And I don’t know about you but if music is going to drive people away from the Eucharist we have bigger problems than we think. It is not music’s job to keep the congregation in the Church (capital “C” intended). It is the job of those who educate the young. Can we educate through the use of P&W music? Absolutely, given that the theology of such music is appropriate. Is it proper for Mass? This is where many of us differ in opinion. Should we accomodate the musical tastes of teens especially by providing music that they relate to primarily for fear they will leave otherwise? As a high school teacher and father of four, I maintain that kids need education before they can make decisions about what they want, and they change their mind more often than their underwear. We should be very careful not to fall prey to the temptation of feeling we have to meet the young on their level just to keep them in the pews. We did a production of Godspell last year as a school musical. Great, informal discussions after many rehearsals. So emotionally powerful and spiritually rewarding for so many kids involved. The Catholic kids involved in it still chuckle when we hear the story of Lazarus on Sunday. But as moving and effective as it was, it would take a Papal directive for me to use any of that music during Mass. It’s just not appropriate. And kids know that. Ask ‘em.
My apologies if anyone is offended this time. God bless ya, brother Aris- forums like these are such a great opportunity to focus one’s philosophy and to listen to others. Sometimes we agree, often we do not, but ultimately it shapes us, and that can only be good.
P.S. anybody know a good tenebrae service?
Hi Kford et al.,
Regarding two quesitons:
Which psalms to use in responsorial psalms at communion. You can find suggestions in the Anglican Use Gradual at http://homepage.mac.com/cdburt/FileSharing.html
While the language is “archaic” it does give the proper antiphons and suggested psalms for communion. You would want to use the translations approved for use in the United States (which I believe are, in order of preference, the New American Bible, the Jerusalem Bible and the Revised Standard (Catholic) Version).
Regarding a good tenebrae service, we do a tenebrae at Holy Trinity in Boston. This is in Latin. I have the music files if you would like them, send me a note via private email.
An outline of the service, as we sing it at Holy Trinity, is below. I don’t have the citations for the readings with me today, but could provide those if so desired.
Spy Wednesday Tenebrae (after each psalm a candle in the hearse is extinguished).
Zelus & Ps 68 (antiphon and psalm)
Avertantur & Ps 69 (antiphon and psalm)
Deus meus & Ps 70 (antiphon and psalm)
In monte (reading)
Tristis est (reading)
Ecce vidimus (reading)
Liber vit & Ps 71 (antiphon and psalm)
Cogitaverunt & Ps 72 (antiphon and psalm)
Exsurge & Ps 73 (antiphon and psalm)
Amicus (reading)
Iudas (reading)
Unus (reading)
Dixi & Ps 74 (antiphon and psalm)
Terra & Ps 75 (antiphon and psalm)
In die & Ps 76 (antiphon and psalm)
Eram (reading)
Una hora (reading)
Seniores (reading)
Iustificeris & Ps 50 (antiphon and psalm)
Dominus & Ps 89 (antiphon and psalm)
Contritum est & Ps 35 (antiphon and psalm)
Exhortatus est & Cant. (antiphon and psalm)
Oblatus est & Ps 146 (antiphon and psalm)
Traditor & Benedictus (antiphon and psalm)
Christus factus est (reading)
Hi…
Most of your comments were directed at my last posting to you, which, I admit, was a little too harsh. If I could go back and rewrite what I wrote, I would, especially in regards to Aristotle’s recent request that we treat each other a little more charitably, which I want to do.
That said, let me first agree with you that it is vitally important that we educate our youth and teens. Part of this education is knowing who they are, what they are struggling with, and meeting their needs where they are at. It is one thing to teach kids about the faith. It’s another thing to teach kids how the faith applies to them, today, right now, at their schools, in their families, and in their deep, unique struggles.
You are right to state that those who leave the Catholic faith on the grounds of poor music have weak faith. However, to me, that sounds akin to stating that second graders have poor reading skills. Of course they do! But the second graders were just introduced to the alphabet the previous year, and are just learning to read. In much the same way, teens today are learning about the faith, not just the basic facts, but how it applies to them, far more than when they were younger.
Teens, don’t forget, have very specific needs–they’re being pressured in an evironment that’s so unique to our culture, and they’re still getting footing as to who they really are, what their talents are, set apart from mom & dad. They are pressured by so many temptations left and right, and they need to know that the Catholic faith, and the Eucharist speak to them, personally, in their trials and discoveries.
Please note that if the teens in your parish are perfectly content with the music selection and the teen program that’s there, wonderful. Believe me, P&W music is good for what it is, but it is merely a tool, just as are retreats, Bible Studies, adoration, and pizza parties/volleyball games. It’s not perfect, and I can certainly write reasons to move away from P&W if ever I was so driven to. My point, however, is that if your parish doesn’t attract the next generation, then it is possibly creating a division to these kids, who so desperately need to be reached out.
With all due respect to other denominations, I know that there are some denominations that are over 50% from former Catholics. The very fact that these churches have funeral services of their own means that most of these folks never return. And these folks mature, away from Catholicism. They look upon Catholicism as a dead faith, and an old wineskin. What drives them to accept a different theology is often the fact that their parish did nothing to reach out to them when they were young.
I know too many folks like this. If I sound passionate about this, it’s because deep in my heart that there’s no discernible reason why such people should’ve had to leave in the first place, had only the parish listened to them and met their needs, (even needs as flimsy as song selection). Believe me, I can accept it when people say on this board that music should not be emotional, but to a person who’s growing in faith, that’s akin to a “dead church”. We have to be better than that.
“I ain’t knocking them hymns, just give me something with a beat. I ain’t knocking them hymns, just want something to move my feet. I don’t want none of them ‘funeral marches.’ I’m not dead yet.” — Larry Norman
P.S. Godspell is NOT Praise & Worship. P&W bands might have covered some of their songs (such as Day By Day or By My Side), but most P&W songbooks haven’t incorporated such songs for about two decades now.
To Nick and all
Nick, we are definitely partners in this passion.
I come from a career military background where the saying “perception is reality” rules. Teenage minds run fast, and in the moment. They reach out and grasp that which is “cool” or pretty. They take risks. They love and hate and trust and distrust at the drop of a hat, and their spiritual metabolisms are even more demanding than their phyical ones. They must be fed constantly or they will move out to greener pastures where they think the good food is. Case and point: In the past I have played a good bit at non Catholic churches, especially at youth gatherings. What happens there and what draws them there isn’t mystical (though it certainly is of God). What happens is they are fed love and acceptance. They are made to feel comfortable in their skins and are not treated like little grownups. True, the Eucharist is not the center of the teachings they receive there. They learn more generically Christian things, such as: love, self and mutual respect, clean living, the power of personal and corporate worship – and most importantly – why they need to care about God, the reality of mortality. For the large part, we are not teaching these things very well (if at all).
Now just think, what if we taught all these things in a teen-safe/teen- friendly environment along with the central message of the Eucharist? How can that be anything but a win win win win situation?
Now I’m not saying we are nowhere with this, just lagging behind. Matter of fact there is a fantastic thing going on here in Houston on the third Monday of each month at the Catholic Charismatic Center. It’s called XLT (Extreme Life Teen). It is a teen praise/worship service combined with a benediction service.
There is one priest (from the Companions of The Cross) in attendance, but for the most part, it is run almost totally by the youth and a few youth ministers. It goes like this:
They gather & They pray
They sing with seveal rousing praise songs performed by a teen praise band.
The priest brings forth the Blessed Sacrament while the band plays
Tantum Ergo, and the kids sing (in Latin). All kneel. You can hear a pin drop!
Then, at a sign from the priest, worship music is started and each teen is encouraged to personally engage Jesus. It blows you away! There are lots of tears and there is great healing!
Then, at a sign from the priest, the process is reversed.
The Blessed Sacrament is returned to the Tabernacle
The kids sing a couple more thank you songs to Jesus.
They pray
The service ends
My bass player and I attended one service and we were totally convicted. I have led worship (both Protestant and Catholic) lots of times, but nothing ever approached this. What was the difference? THE BLESSED SACRAMENT of course!
We actually used this model for a benediction service here in our own church in February and it was very well received – by adults and teens alike. In fact one of our priests who attended as a spectator spent most of the evening on his face.
I know what I talking about – we catch up or we lose.
Tom McRae
Tom McRae,
Thanks for responding to my post. I apologize if I was a bit harsh, which is what I was now that I read it over.
I guess my main point was about music *in the liturgy.* If you or someone else finds it uplifting to praise God through P&W music, that’s great – and I mean that. But I think that we have to be very circumspect about the music we use in the official worship of the Church. In this case, it isn’t just a matter of you or I playing music (I’m a church musician also), but we are doing it in the name of the Church. More that this, it’s not so much we who are doing it, but Christ, or rather, the whole Body of Christ, Head and members, as St. Augustine loved to say. So music which represents only a small portion of people (teenagers in white middle class America 2005) cannot be the norm, which I’m afraid is happening in some places in some liturgies. Not to mention the other issues of what the teenagers do once they not teenagers anymore. As I suggested, I think think there’s a danger of too much of a short-term solution here.
P&W for retreats, prayer groups, and things like that are one thing – the liturgy of the Church is another, I think.
Hi Sam…
I agree with most of what you say, but I’m afraid that I disagree with: “So music which represents only a small portion of people (teenagers in white middle class America 2005) cannot be the norm, which I’m afraid is happening in some places in some liturgies.” The assertion being, that because teenagers tend to respond overwhelmingly positive to P&W, then P&W represents the religious music of teenagers today.
This is faulty logic. It does not follow that because the majority of Catholic teenagers accept P&W mean that P&W is for Catholic teenagers, in much the same way that it’s equally illogical in that, because dogs are “man’s best friend” that the best friend of a man is always a dog. (I’d come up with a better example but it’s so late in the day).
P&W is universally accepted, and is not bound by age, race, or denomination. Those commercials late at night advertising P&W music? Not a teenager in the bunch.
Now… there ARE particular P&W songs that tend to be more youth-oriented, and to these I would whole-heartedly agree that they would well find a better place outside of the liturgy. But for those songs that are Scripturally-based, easy to sing, and have a solemnity that puts every Haas&Haugen lover to shame, well, I can hardly find a better approach to music that fits for CERTAIN elements of the liturgy (while respecting the wonderful gifts that chant and timeless hymns bring to the Eucharistic table).
Peace!
Dear AAE and readers:
I had wondered what, in all of the recent postings, had caused such a response from AAE as his Read this carefully before you post, and heed it when you do post. Having read this particular line of postings, I now understand.
Perhaps the first thing that would irritate me, if I had hosted this particular line and were reading the responses, would be that so few actually responded to AAE’s original statement. Its nub, I believe, regarded the change from the 1962 Mass and its use at the end of that Mass of what Anglo- and English Catholics have called The Last Gospel (John.1:1-14). AAE then compared the closing rites in the 1967 (aka Pauline) Mass, apparently thought the innovations counter-intuitive, and ended with a particularly beautiful and evocative line: Given that, the soaring words of the Eagle seem much more inspiring than the soaring melody of “On Eagle’s Wings” or most other hymns.
What AAE got, instead of a response to that thought, was a firestorm which fairly delineated the current culture wars afflicting the post Vatican II Roman Catholic churches. Yuck. I do not at all blame AAE for his response. In fact, I am amazed that he was as level-headed and as reasonable as he was under the circumstances. If I had been in his place, I would have pulled the plug long ago. I am very happy that he has not.
In my initial response regarding AAE’s actual comment, I would have to agree with AAE: the words of the Last Gospel would be far more inspiring than On Eagle’s Wings. In point of fact, I see nothing (other than the endemic fear of tradition which most American RC clergy and liturgists appear to be afflicted with) to prevent them from ending the liturgy with a simple chanted reading of the Last Gospel, and then proceeding on with an appropriate hymn. Of course, in a great cathedral, or a church that had the resources, for a great feast like Christmas, you could do something like the Epilogue from Ralph Vaughan Williams’ Hodie, a sound clip of which can be found at the following website: http://www.citizenrob.com/hodieepilogue/mp3
As regards the firestorm, may I first commend to you the words of that great philosopher, Rodney King: “Why can’t everybody just get along?”
Of course, knowing the antecedent circumstances, I also know that, without the light of Christ, which illumines all humankind, it just ain’t going to happen.
The antecedent circumstances are first, that humans differ in taste as regards music. Some like classical, some country western, some pop, some jazz, some rock, some world, and some (shudder) gangsta rap.
The second is that, barring restraint, people in charge of liturgical activities are going to institute their preferences in taste in the liturgies over which they have control.
The third, and most potent aspect of this war, is that many people are reacting to the terrible music that they had to endure either in their youth or when they had no say in what was going on. Those whom I have in the past uncharitably referred to as “folk fascists” and now more descriptively as “the Worship and Praise crowd”, have had to suffer through maudlin Gregorian chant (with organ accompaniment) or the “four-hymn crowd” (with such favorites as “Immaculate Mary”). Classicists (or those who have had suffer through the last 30 years) have been galled with the stupidity of “Sons of God, hear His holy word” (aka the Munchkin hymn)
In consequence, those who have been out of power have the resolve that, if they ever get in charge of a liturgy, they will never again hear the sort of music they have had to suffer through. Further examples of this sort of spiritual etiology may be done as an exercise by the reader.
Blinded by these psychological antecedents, most of these invalids will approach the documents of the Second Vatican Council with the sort of inquiry found in the fable: “The blind men and the elephant”. Some will latch onto the statement that the vernacular is permitted and ignore the equal statement that in all liturgical gatherings, the latin language is to be preserved. Others will find the statement that “The music of the people is to be encouraged” and ignore the equal statements that “all other things being equal, Gregorian chant is to be given pride of place in all liturgical gatherings” or “the treasury of polyphony is to be preserved.” And there will be others who hold to chant alone, or polyphony alone, and try to nix any modern music, even if it be something theologically appropriate, like “Gift of Finest Wheat” or the liturgical settings of Taise, because of their very real hurts of the past.
All of this is understandable. None of it, however, is catholic, either in the sence of katholikos (in its primary meanings of universal or complete), nor is it Catholic, as can be obtained from an impartial reading of the documents of Vatican II on the subject of liturgical music.
As those documents have said, again and again, in all liturgical gatherings, gregorian chant is to be given pride of place; the treasury of polyphony is to be preserved; and the hymns of the people are to be encouraged. In liturgical gatherings, too, the vernacular is to be encouraged, but the latin language is to be preserved.
Finally, and underlining liturgical law, the three means by which the Holy Spirit has spoken to us are through Scripture, Tradition, and Church Authority (both Councils and Papal Encyclicals, and the appropriate liturgical rubrics and canon law).
It would appear to me that if clergy and liturgists were actually to listen to the Holy Spirit, they might want to listen to what has been said as regards liturgy in Leviticus and Deuteronomy (or the Psalms), the continuous testimony of tradition, and the appropriate church documents. They might actually consider the Mass to be the foretaste of the Kingdom of Heaven and the Wedding Feast of the Lamb, instead of the meeting hall and fast food joint that most RC churches have appeared to become. I fear that at the Last Judgment, our Lord will say to both the folk singers and the classicists: “I have called you to the Great Feast, and you have given My people either MacDonalds’ or petit fours.
As an outsider (Eastern Catholic), and as one who believes that the Roman Church is a sister church, quite frankly it saddens me to see such division among you. From what I have been able to see and hear, it also saddens the wiser of my Eastern Catholic and Orthodox brothers and sisters. I strongly suspect (although I do not know this) that AAE shares this sadness.
As I believe Cromwell once said , “in the bowels of Christ, consider the possibility that you may be mistaken.” To those who wish only modern music, I say: “Please, consider that chant, polyphony, and Latin have an important and appropriate place too.” To those who wish only the music of the past, I say: “Please consider that the Holy Spirit may be living even within some Worship and Praise music.”
To all of you, I say, please stop pulling the rudder of the Church of Christ according to your desires or taste, or you may occasion a shipwreck which will make that of the Anglican Church seem that of a rowboat by comparison.
One of the problems with liturgical music today is simply what Bernard has spotlighted: those in charge of planning liturgies do not take into account the authoritative sources, and so the only source of authority becomes the personal preferences of the people (whether pastor or liturgist) making the plans.
Here in the Archdiocese of Boston the average parish church celebrates 4-5 Masses every weekend. The Saturday evening Mass typically draws older parishioners, the Sunday morning Masses younger adults and families with children, and the few evening Masses are either youth Masses or are attended by people who overslept and whose parish doesn’t have an evening Mass! But in all of them, the music is much the same. Almost none of them have chant or traditional music ever.
Why would it be so hard to have a Mass with chant and traditional hymnody once per weekend, or at least once per weekend at one church within a deanery. Here in Boston, to the best of my knowledge, there is only Holy Trinity in Boston which offers the Tridentine Mass weekly, St. Paul’s in Cambridge which houses the Archdiocesan Boys Choir school which has chant and polyphony at times, and one or two others that have monthly chant. In most parishes chant is never heard, or at most an occasional chanted Kyrie or Agnus Dei. I doubt whether most American dioceses are much different.
This is part of the cause of the vehemence, I suspect, among those who do love the traditional music…it is in part a reaction to their near universal deprivation in the contemporary American Church of music which the Second Vatican Council said should be given pride of place! Music which Pope Paul VI, of blessed memory, instructed the Bishops (in his letter accompanying the pamphlet Jubilate Deo) to be sure was known by all their faithful. Imagine…in a diocese of over 2 million Catholics, which until recently was composed of more than 350 parishes, there was exactly one church which had one Mass weekly where the faithful could pray using Gregorian Chant. And they couldn’t do that in the rite that they are accustomed to, but have to learn the Tridentine rite.
Another problem is the idea that teenagers form some sort of univocal block with all the same taste. My local parish had a “Lifeteen style” Mass (it’s still called a Teen Mass, but the number of teens is so small as to probably have the least of any parish Mass, and the music no longer fits the Lifeteen style)–but my children (now 17, 15 and 13) wanted no part of it. They much prefer traditional hymnody, with harmonization, etc. To be frank, when I was a kid, so did I. Even though that may be a smaller percentage, the fact is that teens musical taste varies also. Painting all teens into one box is not a good way to handle things.
My beef with the concept of a Teen Mass was simply that I see it as a very harmful thing to divide up families, indeed the parish, that way. One Mass for retired people, one for families with young kids, another for teens, etc. There should, ideally, be one Sunday Eucharist in a parish for everyone.
I think that a better way to give different demographic groups different outlets for there talents and provide appropriate catechesis, is to foster extra-liturgical and devotional activities, i.e., prayer meetings, Bible Studies, even something as old-timey as a hymn sing. One of the problems with the post-conciliar church has been that for a long while every Catholic get together has had to be a Mass. There was a strong tradition prior to the council of diverse devotionals and groups that could meet the needs of distinct groups. Reviving that tradition and adapting it to the needs (catechetical, musical, etc.) of our different parochial subgroups would be better than molding the weekly Eucharist into reflection of the people instead of accepting it as the Tradition we have been handed on.
What habitue of blogdom am I quoting if I shout, “Let the Church say ‘Amen!’”?
“My beef with the concept of a Teen Mass was simply that I see it as a very harmful thing to divide up families, indeed the parish, that way. One Mass for retired people, one for families with young kids, another for teens, etc. There should, ideally, be one Sunday Eucharist in a parish for everyone.
I think that a better way to give different demographic groups different outlets for there talents and provide appropriate catechesis, is to foster extra-liturgical and devotional activities, i.e., prayer meetings, Bible Studies, even something as old-timey as a hymn sing. One of the problems with the post-conciliar church has been that for a long while every Catholic get together has had to be a Mass.”
Nick,
You make a good point, and for one who took logic in college, I wasn’t being very logical. The P&W songs I’ve some across (an I freely admit I’m no expert) seemed to me to be catered to tennagers – I have a hard time imagining people of all ages listening to stuff like it on a radio at work, though I could be wrong.
Be that as it may, some of my main points have also been brought up some recent posters: the dearth of more traditional music / juggernaut of more contemporary styles; the mass being (practically) the only vehicle for religious music in the Church.
I would also agree that there are painfully few churches doing, or even trying to do, what the Church wants in terms of liturigcal music – most don’t know what’s in the documents or don’t seem particularly interested. I also realize that as a church musician I have to live with the present situation. I don’t look upon P&W music as “bad”, just falling short. That’s the way most of life is, but when you’re talking the worship of the one true God, it’s hard sometimes to sit back and let it happen, if you know what I mean! But you are interested in what the Church wants, Nick, which in my experience is not very common.
Thanks, Sam for your comments.
As someone who has a foot in Catholic sacred hymnody and a foot in the current P&W movement, I can assure you that there are times where, upon hearing a teen-friendly P&W song at liturgy, I would cringe. I wouldn’t say that for every P&W song, mind you, but certainly some of the more popular songs out there, which are learned at wonderful conferences and the like, are then assumed to be okay for the liturgy… and then this whole lemmings mentality strikes–these songs must be okay because everybody else seems to be doing it.
What I advocate is that the songs must correspond to (1) the readings, (2) the church calendar, (3) the flow of the liturgy, and (4) the documents themselves. Since I find that the documents display both a desire to have music accustomed for particular cultures, while simultaneously affirming chant and polyphony as the pride and place of the church. It has a desire to make the liturgy as participatory as possible, but it desires to promote music that is not really all that participatory (simple chant–yes, polyphonies–a resounding no). And yes, as some folks on this board attest, that one can be participate mentally and spiritually, if not audibly, but the documents, especially in discussing the “blending of voices” does not leave room for this interpretation.
So I am very cautious as to what songs to use, to walk this fine balance, that work for the community that I play for. And if a P&W song works better, by all means. To simplify, P&W really has two tempos: (1) a loud, fun, song that’s purpose is to get us out of ourselves (and which is probably what you’re accustomed to), and (2) a soft, powerful, worshipful and simple song. It is the latter that I focus upon, especially when I write a song that fits the Communion Antiphon.
I like this board, even if I feel that I stand alone sometimes. That I still stand alone is partially because of the fact that I’ve seen enough of P&W to know that there’s a lot of grace in it, and that grace can be a real good thing for your parishes, if the need exists. As I wrote earlier, it is unlike the current state of modern hymnody, in that it is almost exclusively God-centric, as opposed to being man-centric. It is simple to sing. It is easy to pick up and sing in a communion line, without carrying books around. Certain songs are almost entirely Scriptural, and the best of such songs bring Scripture to life. I would say that for even of what I’ve heard of Tom McRae’s songs, like “You’re All This To Me” and “Surely Oh Lord.”
But I would never encourage using one style in its entirity over another. My Bible says “God is the God of yesterday, today and forever.” It does not say God is the God of yesterday, yesterday, and yesterday. It does not say God is the God of today, today, and today. Let’s be friends…
Nick
Nick and all ..
Indeed! Let us be friends. I do truly believe that we are all after the same thing, a deeper, more personally fulfilling worship experience. I do not know the perfect formula, but I do know that God is no less honored by simple songs than by complicated ones. I have been accused of being too “Jesus centric” and that baffles me! What can that mean? How can that be? The idea of the real presence of Jesus in the communion feast is the very thing that convinced me to convert to Catholicism from the Baptist faith 7 years ago. How can any Catholic (or any Christian, for that matter) not be Jesus centric? Don’t you just want to jump up and down and scream and shout about it? I just watched a movie that delved into the “realities” we create in our minds. I was most of the way through it before I realized it was just an attack on the concept of an all knowing all-seeing all- powerful God. That’s the C–p we need to do battle with. Not each other.
Be Well, my friends..and patient
Tom McRae
seems all’s not perfect in paradise, huh? maybe we can fix it.